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Author
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Topic: Oral Countermeasure Bonnet
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stat
Member
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posted 08-09-2006 05:27 PM
 
I had a cancelation today (PCSOT) and I performed a silly but noteworthy experiment today. As a result of the all-out-war against polygraph via countermeasures (cm)among other battlefronts---specifically physical----biting the mouth/tongue---I decided to wrap a strap-style pneumo (Stoelting) around my head and jaw---see "Marley" from the "A Christmas Carol" depictions. I'll be g'd' if when I attempted to bite any part of my mouth internally there arose such a clatter on my pneumo---ahem---oral countermeasure bonnet.---That's right---you heard it here first. I couldn't nor wouldn't USE the damn thing---but we all know that the (arguably) best (hardest to detect)physical cm is the mouth varieties--at least in my experience.Of course any swallowing and talking produces a "bump"---but swallowing is semi autonomic---and perhaps an examinee can be instructed to only swallow at certain intervals. Either way, there is a NOTICIBLE tracing change (sudden onset) no matter how subtle I bite. On top of that, you should have seen the tracing as a result of me laughing to myself at how foolish I must have looked---it was off the chart. Any thoughts---please ---no harmful ridicule----it's been one of those trips.---stat[This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-09-2006).] IP: Logged |
Barry C
Member
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posted 08-09-2006 05:36 PM
It is interesting, but I'd think disposable, adhesive, piezoelectric sensors would do the trick with a little more ease. I do like the fact that you're thinking about these things, but I wouldn't tell too many people about this one. Do you have photos Ray could post on his web page? IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 08-09-2006 05:36 PM
By the way--if an instrument company produces one of these----even though I've never sued a soul in my life---well,you get the picture.IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 08-09-2006 05:46 PM
I'm getting confessions to countermeasure attempts on a regular to semi regular basis Barry---it's getting really old--you know? i would use a transducer loaded fishing net if I thought it would help. When an examinee fails an attempt at cm's, it just begs so many more questions, and none of the answers are confirmed. With parolees, the prohibition against internet usage is beginning to be as futile as telephone prohibition----being that the internet is the new phone. I think alot of Examiners will agree that if you are a weak interrogator/interviewer, you will be creamed in todays world of anti poly and cm's. I'm sure that it's always been true, but it seems more true today.IP: Logged |
Taylor
Member
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posted 08-09-2006 05:53 PM
Stat - what type of countermeasures do you find them using and admitting to?PS: I would also like to see the pictures! Taylor IP: Logged |
rnelson
Member
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posted 08-09-2006 07:28 PM
This sounds very interesting.Is the stoelting pneumo sensor a pneumatic sensor, or the electromagnetic one? It seems like I once saw an odd velcro-elastic strap thing with a magnet and transducer - but I cannot recall right now. Also, just to be sure, do you wrap the sensor vertically under your jaw and across the top of your head? If so, does swallowing and biting your tongue produce and different response than answering yes or no. (About now I'm picturing you in a tin-foil hat...) Seriously now, I too would like to hear more about what countermeasures you are finding. And I'm even more curious about gaining admissions - which seems to be getting more and more difficult. One thing I've noticed is that some offenders are not stupid - so if they are 100 percent sure they will be sanctioned and consequenced, if not revocated from probation, for any confirmed countermeasure use (confirmed = admitted), and less than 100 percent sure of consequences if they do not admit (meaning that they might possibly avoid consequences if we cannot prove countermeasure use - and of course without an admission, the PO will not revocate and go back to court), then the motivation to admit countermeasures is potentially diminished. This is a bit like the ineffective parent who teaches his children to be dishonest by punishing a child harshly even after the child tells the truth - even young children have some capacity for economic forethouth - at least if they lie or don't admit then there is a chance they won't get punished. Effective parents reward and teach honesty with greater tollerance, and mitigate consequences accordingly. To me this has policy implications - we should be prepared to deal more rigorously with those who stubbornly refuse to admit, and mitigate our response to those who do admit. In this way we leverage the offender's narcissistic self-interest in gaining admissions. Countermeasures seems to come in waves (I know that sounds superstitious). I recently had two scopalamine cases - severe dampening of EDA. I'll find the charts and put them up shortly. I'd be happy to host in a secured webspace any pictures of the Marley CM experiment, or other CM examples.
I
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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
--(Dr. Strangelove, 1964) IP: Logged |
J.B. McCloughan
Administrator
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posted 08-09-2006 07:55 PM
I would have to agree with Barry. Piezoelectric sensors would be less intrusive for this application. Also there is the issue of not placing components on the bare skin of multiple examinees without properly disinfecting them.The sensors themselves are actually rather cheap, about as much as the disposable EDA tabs cost, and can be easily integrated into current systems.
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Barry C
Member
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posted 08-09-2006 08:26 PM
I hear the sound of singing cash registers at all the polygraph sales offices! IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 08-10-2006 06:08 PM
The experiment was great. There is a tremendious distinction between the artifacts made from swallowing---down line and then dramatically up and ANY sort of biting----which is up (fast or slow) and sustained. What I'm saying is that the countermeasure CHANGES THE BASELINE completely. Any sort of biting is HIGHLY conspicuous and COMPLETELY different than ALL other artifacts---sigh, gum shift, swallow. At the risk of sounding like a moron, my STOELTING pneumo is the black strap type (velcro, non-bellows)which came with the CPS1 unit. I wear it (yes, i've done it twice now--and recreated my experiment for artifact comparison reasons)with the transducer (sorry nelson I assume that's what the internel type it is)around my mid-way back chin. This placement would be tough on HEAVY folks. The strap goes over my ears and fastens at the just rear part of the top of my head---"where the raindrops fall"-----Think of the ole toothache bonnet. The tracing is undeniably unigue for baseline and the tracing forms a HIGHLY noticible "apnea" or plateau. It is apperant that on my head, I CANNOT NO MATTER HOW SLOWLY AND DESCREETLY, BITE ANY PART OF MY MOUTH WITHOUT INCREASING THE DIAMETER OF THE SPAN OF THE COMPONENT---WHEN I'M DONE BITING/NIPPING, THE BASELINE RETURNS TO THE NON-BITING PLACEMENT.All other artifacts return instantly to the baseline. Think of the human head as a chest cavity/torso. When you slightly open your teeth, you increase the diameter by what is hard to visually detect, but is dramatic to a normal gain setting for a pneumograph. [This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-10-2006).] [This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-10-2006).] IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 08-10-2006 06:28 PM
When I was 18-19 I used some transducers bought from Radio Shack for $4 apiece to fabricate some electric touch-sensitive drums---to increase my (then) professional electric drumkit. It's not exactly nanotechnology. I think the instrument companies should step up the game. I can't believe 1 bright but disgruntled dueshebag living in Amsterdam? could cause us so many headaches. The majority of confessed countermeasures that I've had were mental math and NLP. I had one pizza boy whose gums were bleeding so bad he needed a tissue from biting. No confession about oral countermeasures though--- because---well, in my opinion they're damn good countermeasures. Like what Patton said about a pair of ballsey nazi bombers who straffed his encampment, "If i new who those men were, I'd give'em a metal." Ya gotta hand it to George Mashke, he certainly gets an A+ for effort and tenacity.[This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-10-2006).] IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 08-10-2006 06:59 PM
To rnelson ---YES YES YES. I reward all disclosures and admissions with even higher levels of respect and relief---good pauses and digressions into small talk (thier start). I just had this morning a man confess to molesting a 10ish year old girl 6 months ago when he had just started parole. The guy was thanking me profusely afterward and I promised that I would vote at the containment meeting to "go extra easy" on him. I kept my word and bragged on him and his agent told him that I defended him due to his honesty (it{the test} was actully a long, extracting, theme-filled process). He knows he f'ed up. The guy asked to be polygraphed by me when he gets back out (IF). I'm sure you get the picture---many of us have been there. I have been working on a book of themes for interoggation purposes for about a year now. It is called The Interrogation Cookbook. I've shared some themes with a fellow, very busy examiner and there appears to be some value (very limited market)within the sex offender interviewer crowd. The other examiner and myself have vollied many ideas around despite great geographical distance. By the way, some of the most compelling themes will illicit instant tears in some Offenders if used with compassion, conviction, and with natural and unrehearsed fluidity---of course the secret recipe is what type of person responds to what kinds of themes.Other themes are used to corner the Offender in his/her previously spoken words and psuedo-logic-----the devices are a kind of spoken psychometric (shorthand)series of themes---within the confines and settings of parole and sex offender treatment. I have read several interrogation books which were either too boring (like a book on gastronomy) or not very helpful inthe kitchen (like a restaurant guide) but what I've been working on is a cookbook. A book with real-world devices for different types of interrogative targets and Offender personalities. I'm afraid the L.E. fellas might find much of the material bizzare----but I will not publish (self/small house) a BORING BOOK that oversimplifies,overintelectualizes, or oversells difficult to remember theory. I have effective material on masturbation habits (confessions)and "deviant sexual fantasies" and re-offending and triggers and "control" issues (as in not having control"), examiner demeanor myths and "positive profanity" and even some religious themes for those ultra annoying and difficult "religiousity" Offenders. Sheesh I just formulated a whole new theme today that I call the grass mowing theme. When I hear examiners talk about interrogation, my ears perk up. It is my favorite part of the job. I leave the accuracy studies and formats to the researchers---and then I follow the rules and trust that I will do well. Are there any others out there that have a PARTICULAR fondness of the interview more so than the charts? [This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-10-2006).] [This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-10-2006).] IP: Logged | |
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